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Interview ABC Afternoon Briefing 06/05/2025
Patricia Karvelas:Let's bring in my panel this afternoon, Liberal Senator Maria Kovacic and LaborMP Josh Burns. Welcome to both of you, Maria, first to you. We'll talk aboutthose comments in a second, but we have to comment on the fact that we're aboutto have an election in Tasmania, which is an extraordinary set of circumstancesthere.
Patricia Karvelas: Doyou think Tasmanians really wanna go to the polls?
Senator Maria Kovacic:I'm certain that they don't, and I think they'd be rightfully annoyed. Pk, Ithink it's very distressing to see what's transpired in Tasmania today. Andthis maneuver by the Labor Party in Tasmania will harm Tasmanians. It willdisrupt their daily lives.
Senator Maria Kovacic:They had a state election last March. They've just had a federal election. Andto take them to the polls again, particularly during a cost of living crisis,which you know, is. Represents, you know, a, you know, a lack of regard forwhat the everyday person is going through. And in my view it's. It's not a verygood look for Tasmanian labor today.
Patricia Karvelas:Yeah. Josh, it does seem like, you know, there's an elected government and nowlabor has brought this on, you know to, Maria's point is, that the case? Imean, why would you call on an election like this?
Josh Burns MP: Well,I mean, it's the Premier's discretion to call the election, but. The, Tasmanianpolitical system is slightly different as well.
Josh Burns MP: TheHair Clark system is a, you know, it's something that we in the mainland don'treally have much to do with look, obviously the Tasmanian government lost theconfidence of the floor of the Tasmanian Parliament, and that is essential inorder to have a functioning government. I mean, we don't run governments wherethey can control a minority on the, Central parliament. So it is important thatdemocracy and the principles of democracy are maintained. However, on thespecifics of the Tasmanian politics, I'll leave that. Oh yeah. To my colleaguesin the South,
Patricia Karvelas: IAbsolutely, yeah. You are both not experts in Tasmanian politics, but it's abig political story and there is a liberal government there.
Patricia Karvelas: Ofcourse. Last question to you, Senator, if I can, on this the kind ofcircumstances here are pretty wild. You know, there's lots of reasons beingcited for this, but just on this question of, you know, the position labor's inlabor actually did extremely well in Tasmania at the federal election.
Patricia Karvelas:Could this see the liberal government lose power?
Senator Maria Kovacic:I think that's a matter for Tasmanians, and I think what's transpired todaywill be something that they won't be pleased about. But again, I think. That isa matter for them and, they will send us a very clear message about what theythink of this in the ne in the coming sort of weeks and months, I guess,depending on when this election is.
Patricia Karvelas:Yeah, we'll see. Okay, we're keeping a watching brief on that. Maria, stillwith you, Alan Stockdale's comments. Whoa. Where does one begin? Assertivewomen in the party you know, need to be I don't know, watched in some way ifthere's a lot of assertiveness in your party. What did you think when you heardthose comments?
Senator Maria Kovacic:Well. I don't think those comments are helpful in any way. In terms of the toneof them. And I won't speak to the intention. I don't intend to speak forsomeone else, but I will say this, I echo the comments of our leader, SusanLee, that we welcome assertive women in the liberal party. And there are manyof us already here and there are intelligent, engaged, and articulate women inour party that want to see us do well.
Senator Maria Kovacic:And that's what I would prefer to see us focusing on.
Patricia Karvelas:And Susan Lee said they should join the liberal party as well, but let's, youknow you're a pretty straight shooter. If you hear comments like that fromsomebody who appears to have power in the liberal party and you're a woman,doesn't really make you wanna rush off and get a membership form, does it?
Senator Maria Kovacic:Well, I think it sends a message. Again, as I said, that's not helpful andagain, I won't speak to the intent, but what I will say is the best way for anyorganization politically to change and to shift and to move is to have morepeople involved at a grassroots level. And that's what we want and everypolitical organization wants.
Senator Maria Kovacic:We should see more people participate, our community. You know, has 50% of itis female, 50% are women. And we want to see that kind of representation, notonly in our party, but also in our party rooms across the country at state andfederal levels.
Patricia Karvelas:Josh, this was obviously too delicious for the Prime Minister not to comment onbecause you know it's not a, happy day for the liberal party when stories likethis are out.
Patricia Karvelas:But you've heard from Maria there, obviously there are very strong women in theliberal party who would like to see more women with power in there. How do yourespond to what's unfolded?
Josh Burns MP: Well,clearly there aren't enough Marias in the Liberal party, and when you hearcomments like what we, you know, what we saw today where there is sort of thisculture inside the liberal party that says that we need to push down theambitions of women.
Josh Burns MP: It'shardly surprising that when you look across the liberals and the nationals oftheir 42 seats in the House of Representatives, less than 25% of them arewomen. Across the coalition, I think they've only got 10 in the House ofRepresentatives, which is just the most extraordinary set of circumstances fora party that seeks to form government when less than a quarter of their ownrepresentation are, you know, a representative of over half the population.
Josh Burns MP: Andunlike the liberals in the nationals, we set about setting in policy andstructures within the party that would enable people to be promoted to to. Youknow, contest in winnable seats, and that's why I'm, you know, I sit in acaucus with over 50% of the caucus as women. It's a representation of, youknow, years of concerted effort and structures within the Labor Party thatensure that opportunity is spread and that the party represents and reflectsmodern Australia.
Patricia Karvelas:Yeah. The modern Australia language is also being used, of course, by yourleader Maria. Susan Lee. She talks a lot about wanting to look a lot, Mike. Alot like modern Australia. You've been unsuccessful in getting Giselle Capelected into the parliament. She of course ran for the liberals for the seat ofBradfield.
Patricia Karvelas:Where does that leave the liberal party? Is that something that the liberalparty is likely to contest in the courts?
Senator Maria Kovacic:Look, I can't comment on that. That's a matter for others and that sort ofpoint to the statement that Giselle has made. But one thing I will say that'sreally interesting here is that the teal candidate, Nicolette Buller in.
Senator Maria Kovacic:And Bradfield has soft styled herself as the shadow member for Bradfield forthree years. She has been funded and actively working in that community as aalternate member for three years. Giselle Cap has some three months. What weneed to look at is obviously the result is very close. The initial count waswon by Giselle.
Senator Maria Kovacic:The subsequent count has been won by Nicollette Buller. So there are obviouslyyou know, some different. It is there that will be addressed by the appropriatepeople. But I think it also leads into what political engagement looks likemoving forward and the expectation of people around what the alternativerepresentatives are doing and how they're doing it.
Senator Maria Kovacic:And whether I. You know, somebody who's sitting in the background for threeyears you know, ready to perform when the election comes on is the rightapproach and whether that's something that we see more of moving forward. Soit's an interesting scenario that we are faced with. Yeah, it's interesting.
Senator Maria Kovacic:Any are you, sorry, I was just about,
Patricia Karvelas:are you suggesting the liberal party needs to be more prepared? Right. Like,you know, help someone be the shadow candidate, if you like, for the wholeterm, rather than just bringing them in right at the end.
Senator Maria Kovacic:I'm suggesting it's a very different approach that we haven't seen historicallyin this country.
Senator Maria Kovacic:And I would probably suggest too, if I'd been somebody that had beencampaigning as a shadow member for three years, that I'd wanna win by a littlebit more than 27 votes.
Patricia Karvelas:Okay. On another topic, Josh, the Greens are saying today that the responsiblething for Senator Dur to Dorinda Cox to do is to resign from parliament.
Patricia Karvelas:You know that's, fair, isn't it? She did run on a greens ticket.
Josh Burns MP: Well,of course they're saying that, Patricia, and they've also been, you know,backgrounding against her since you made that decision. So they're obviously alittle bit bitter over there. But I, would make this point that, you know, themore serious point is that we all join political parties because we want to,you know, try and help shape them.
Josh Burns MP: Wewant to be a part of. The policy reforms that the political organizations thatwe're all members for, you know, can achieve and can, you know, thrive for. AndI, owe a great deal to the Labor Party for helping me become the member forMcNamara and for my community, electing me as the labor member.
Josh Burns MP: And I,I feel a deep sense of responsibility and gratitude as part of all of that. Butyou know we are, not, we're not robots. We're, people. And people don't electrobots, they elect. People who have thoughts and values and, care aboutdifferent things. And, you know, we are not, you know, we are not just a sortof automatic machine.
Josh Burns MP: Soobviously the, Greens didn't fit Dorinda Cox anymore and, it's up to Dorinda tomake the decisions. And I, you know, I welcome her into the party and I'm sureshe'll make a strong contribution. Let
Patricia Karvelas: meput this to you. Isn't that the same argument you could use for Fatima paymentthen?
Josh Burns MP: Well,of course you've gotta be consistent in all of this and, you know that's myview.
Josh Burns MP: And I,you know I like I, was, if you look back at my comments at the time aroundFatima I, was, you know, I obviously knew how much pressure she was in at thetime, and I. I I, really felt for her in terms of how difficult some of thepolitics that both her and I had to, you know, navigate. I think, you know,like we're let's be honest, like we're all people and clearly the greens have,I.
Josh Burns MP: Gonethrough, you know, massive changes over the last few years and, you know, hadan extraordinary election result both in the house and in the Senate. So it'syou know, it's something where I think hopefully we can take a big, deepbreath. I welcome Dorinda into the party and, you know, I know She'll, do herbest to get the best outcomes for the people of wa.
Patricia Karvelas:All right, we're out of time. Great to have you both on the panel. Thank you.