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Subjects:Alan Stockdale, Liberal women, administration of the NSW Liberal Party.
KATHERINEROBINSON
Maria Kovacicis a Liberal Senator for New South Wales. Good morning, Maria.
SENATORMARIA KOVACIC
Good morning, Katherine.
ROBINSON
Thank you verymuch for joining me. Do you think we can write this off as a poor attempt at humour?Or should Mr Stockdale have known better?
KOVACIC
His intent mayhave been one of humour. I can't speak to that. That's a matter for him. Butthe issue relates to the comments and the environment in which the commentswere made. To suggest that Liberal women are too assertive is unacceptable.Assertiveness in women isn't aggression or shouldn't be uncomfortable. It'sleadership. If that makes some people uncomfortable, the problem isn't with Liberalwomen or their assertiveness.
ROBINSON
The timing'snot ideal, particularly when the Liberal Party's doing a fair bit of soulsearching.
KOVACIC
We're doing agreat deal of work at the moment to consult with the community. Our leader SussanLey has been very clear that she wants to listen and that she wants a partythat reflects modern Australia. That is what we're doing. I guess whenassertive women are being pointed to as perhaps being too much, it's a signthat there are some structural problems there, particularly with people who arecharged with designing or working on a restructure of our division. For manyyears, women have been told to wait, to soften, to do more to prove ourselves,to earn our place quietly while others are handed positions without question. Quotasaren't about lowering standards. They're about finally raising the floor sothat leadership actually reflects the society. That's what we're working to do.
ROBINSON
So are genderquotas required in the Liberal Party?
KOVACIC
I believe theyare. I believe quotas must be considered now. They are a circuit breaker thatwe need. I've spoken about this in the past few days, and it doesn't mean weneed them forever, but we need them until representation stops being a fightand becomes the norm.
ROBINSON
We've heardfrom, the federal Liberal leader, Sussan Ley and the New South Wales oppositionleader, Mark Speakman. They've also distanced themselves from these comments.The Prime Minister has also weighed in.
THE HONANTHONY ALBANESE MP
There are morewomen in the Labor caucus in the House of Representatives, whose first namebegins in, A than there are Liberal and National women on the floor of theHouse of Representatives.
ROBINSON
What's yourreaction to that comment, Maria?
KOVACIC
The PrimeMinister is providing statistics as to the structure of the Parliament, andthere's no doubt that we need more women. In our party room, at a federallevel, we want more women in our party across the board, across all of ourstates, and at our grassroots level. There's nothing there that we wouldchallenge and say we don't, need more women. We do. Not only do we need morewomen, we want more women. As our leader, Sussan Ley said, we want moreassertive women. We have plenty already, but we want a lot more.
ROBINSON
So do you thinkthat today in 2025, Friday, the 6th of June, that the Liberal Party has aproblem with women, which is an allegation that has dogged the Liberal Partyfor some time now.
KOVACIC
Well, I thinkthe comments that were made this week by one of the members of theAdministrative Committee of New South Wales would lead people to believe that thatis absolutely the case. I think what we also need to look at are the women thathave risen up and have actually said this is not okay and that we'reparticularly not going to remain silent when it comes to the appropriateconsultation about what happens in our division. The current intervention thatwas put forward by the federal executive finishes on the 30th of June, and Ilook forward to a future led by Sussan Ley.
ROBINSON
How do you goabout, Maria, reflecting modern Australia when you might have people within theparty who don't want to see modern Australia?
KOVACIC
That's part ofthe challenge for any organisation where you have differing views. I think oneof the important things that you have to do when that's the case is you have tohave a contest of ideas. You have to actually have that debate. That's what weare doing very openly. You also need to call out things that are unacceptable,which we are also doing. I'm very proud of the assertive women in the LiberalParty, and I'm very proud to be one of them. I'm very proud to be led by one ofthem.
ROBINSON
Laney from Rydeis with us on the line now. Good morning, Laney.
CALLER
Hi, Katherine.
ROBINSON
Hi. You've gota comment for us.
CALLER
I just thoughteven if he was joking, he's a dinosaur. And he's, you know, seriously out ofout of touch with modern thinking.
ROBINSON
Were yousurprised, Laney?
CALLER
Yes, in thecontext it's really not funny at all even if that's his excuse for why he saidit. To make a joke about women being assertive is just really.
KOVACIC
Could I ask youa question if that's okay? It's Maria here. I hope that's okay, Katherine.
ROBINSON
Yeah, go for it,absolutely. It's an open conversation.
KOVACIC
Hearingsomething like that publicly, does that influence your vote? Does that make youthink if that's what people are saying who represent that party, then that'ssomething I'm not comfortable with. Or do you dismiss it as just a comment fromone individual?
CALLER
It coulddefinitely influence my vote if I was teetering on the edge or whatever. It’snot a good look for the party to be saying something like that.
ROBINSON
Laney, thankyou so much for calling in. It's interesting and a great question there, Maria,to find out if it is just one person and one comment, do voters put that aside?
KOVACIC
This is this isthe thing that is important for us to understand as we move forward and wereflect on the results of the election on the 3rd of May. If we're not going tolisten and understand what caused so many people not to vote for us, then we'renot going to be able to rebuild in the way that we want to rebuild and the wayAustralia needs us to rebuild, so that we can actually be an effective andconstructive opposition that holds the government to account when it needs to,and also is constructive and works with the government on policies that we needto.
ROBINSON
Are yousurprised, though, because do you think this really played much of a themethroughout the election? Women in the party? There was a lot more to me itseemed like to be discussed around energy, nuclear, working from home, taxes,petrol excise. Do you really think this got much attention at all during theelection?
KOVACIC
That's abroader question for the electorate than it is for me. But a lot of the issuesthat we spoke to during the election were focused on the cost of living, andperhaps there were these underlying concerns or moods of voters that hadn'tbeen tapped into. I do know, from the feedback that we've received, that thework from home initial policy that was then taken off the table had a bigimpact with female voters, particularly with, young women and, you know,families with young children. So that was a significant factor that we've heardabout since. Perhaps it's also just around that we didn't speak clearly towomen around what we would be able to offer them as an alternative governmentin terms of their needs when it came to work life, the cost of living, childcareand other matters.
ROBINSON
Member forSydney and the Federal Minister for Social Services, Tanya Plibersek, hascalled in. Good morning, Tanya.
THE HONTANYA PLIBERSEK MP
Good morning.Lovely to talk to you.
ROBINSON
Great of you tocall in too. I notice you've been busy on X yesterday speaking about this.
PLIBERSEK
For the Labor Party,this has been a long journey. We started working on affirmative actionliterally decades ago and the proof is there. We’re now more than 55% female inthe Federal Government, but it takes a lot of culture change. It takes a fewyears to get there. When I was elected to the parliament the proportion ofLabor and Liberal women was around the same. As we introduced our affirmativeaction rules, we’ve improved year after year, election after election. We wereat about half at the last election, and we're slightly over half now. I thinkit shows that if you take a patient approach with culture change and rules toback it up, you can definitely make those changes in organisations.
ROBINSON
Maria, couldthe Liberal Party take a leaf out of the Labor Party's book when it comes tothis? When it comes to affirmative action rules, culture change, patience?
KOVACIC
I think all ofthose things are very important and many of them are already underway and havebeen an important part of our organisation. But again, talking about quotas,which I've spoken about earlier and before, I firmly hold the view that if meritalone opened doors, then we wouldn't still be having this conversation in ourparty. Quotas are no longer radical. As I said, they are a necessary circuitbreaker for us.
ROBINSON
Quotas, thoughMinister Plibersek, is just one avenue where your party was at some time ago.
PLIBERSEK
The importantthing about quotas is it's an organisation saying this matters to us. It's partof our values. We're prepared to be judged publicly on whether we achieve whatwe've set out to do. It’s important that our parliament looks like the peoplethat it represents. Gender equality is just one of the things that we want toachieve. We want to see a diversity of professional backgrounds, agedifferences, cultural, religious. The more diverse our parliament is, thebetter it is, because the more representative it is. I just want to give you acouple of examples, like in the last election, one of the policies that peopleresponded to well was the extra investment we made in women's health. The firstnew contraceptive pills listed in decades. The first new menopause medicineslisted in decades. More long acting, removable contraceptives listed. There's abunch of things like that. I don't think that would have happened if we didn'thave Ged Kearney, a former nurse, working hand in hand with Mark Butler, the HealthMinister. It’s that diversity of experience that delivers the policies thatmake a difference to people's lives.
ROBINSON
The Coalition,Maria, did back those medical policies, though, if my memory serves me correct.
KOVACIC
Yes, that'sright. I agree with the comments that Tanya has made around the diversity ofexperience, age, gender, background and just different lived experiences.That's how you get different insights, different perspectives, and that's howyou get really good policy and really good ideas. That's important for everyparty or every group that wants to participate or be part of government tounderstand. I'm really proud to have a leader like Sussan Ley who absolutelygets that, understands that, and is working towards that.
ROBINSON
Just while we roundout on the conversation, Minister Plibersek, we appreciate you calling in. Anyfinal words and then we'll finish off with Maria?
PLIBERSEK
I just I thinkit's what we owe to the Australian people. We owe the Australian people a parliamentthat looks like the community that we represent.
ROBINSON
TanyaPlibersek, Member for Sydney and Social Services Minister, thanks for callingin.
PLIBERSEK
Thank you.
ROBINSON
It's nice tohave a very respectful conversation from both sides of politics here on thisissue. I'm speaking with Maria Kovacic, a New South Wales Liberal Senator,after those comments from Alan Stockdale, a couple of days ago, claiming thatthe women in the Liberal Party are sufficiently assertive. Maria, is there anyaction that the party needs to take with Alan Stockdale as a result of this andthe discussion that it's created?
KOVACIC
Well, the NewSouth Wales Division didn't install Alan Stockdale to lead the Division. Thatwas a matter for the Federal Executive, and the Federal Executive needs to dealwith that. But as I noted earlier, this intervention or administration is dueto finish on the 30th of June and I think it's probably appropriate that itdoes.
ROBINSON
It's beenlovely to speak with you. Really appreciate your time this morning. Maria Kovacic,Liberal Senator for New South Wales. Thank you.
KOVACIC
Thank you somuch.
[ENDS]